I’m Dylan Thuras, and this is Atlas Obscura. Today, we’re doing a listener mailbag episode where we answer your questions, your travel questions, your life questions, your most esoteric questions.
This is an edited transcript of the Atlas Obscura Podcast: a celebration of the world’s strange, incredible, and wondrous places. Find the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all major podcast apps.
Johanna Mayer: To start off today, this is from a listener named Diana. She said, “I’ve heard you talk a lot on the show about urban exploration. I kind of want to try it out. What sort of gear or safety equipment should I pack for exploring abandoned ruins?”
Dylan Thuras: That’s a very good question.
Johanna: It is a good question.
Dylan: And one that I want to answer really, like, responsibly.
Johanna: Okay.
Dylan: Before we get to the gear, I’m going to say something before that.
Johanna: Okay.
Dylan: You know, I think you should just be careful. I’m going to start by saying, like, I grew up doing urbex. I still occasionally find myself in places that are maybe abandoned or semi-ruined. I think it is a really interesting and fun way to explore the world. It is often illegal. And so you got to just be really aware of, like, where you’re going. What is kind of the vibe of the place, right? So, if it’s, like, a place where there’s an obviously high degree of security, it just might not be worth it.
Johanna: A brief interlude here of, like, kind of wild and retrospect experience that I had as a child was, my family was on vacation in Tulum. This is literally, like, 20 years ago before Tulum kind of is what it is now. And Pablo Escobar was building a house down there on the beach. And this is years after he got killed. So the entire house was, like, gutted, completely empty. But my sisters and I, like, went into—you could just walk into it off the beach.
Dylan: How old were you?
Johanna: Ten or so.
Dylan: This rules.
Johanna: So we were, like, clambering around, you know, on the roof. It’s completely gutted, just looking around. And we looked over the edge of the house, and there were, like, multiple security guards with full-on automatic rifles just, like, pacing back and forth. And we ran out of that house, like, sprinting across the beach. But I was like, okay, maybe we should have looked at that situation a little more carefully.
Dylan: So that’s kind of that situational awareness. What is this place? What was it? And that, of course, not only does that apply to the legal side, but it applies to the physical safety side. And this is almost—this is more important even than the legal side, right? Because you also just need to be very aware, like, these places—like, an old house, for example, right? Like, maybe it’s totally—there’s no one guarding it. But, like, the upstairs floor may have fully rotted through.
Johanna: You fall through that floor.
Dylan: And you just want to be really aware of sort of structural integrity questions. You should go with somebody. Don’t go alone. I think that’s actually maybe the number one thing.
Johanna: The question was gear.
Dylan: Okay.
Johanna: What do you actually bring?
Dylan: Oh, right. So, good shoes. Really good shoes. Shoes with the kind of bottoms where if you step on something sharp, it is not going to go through your foot.
Johanna: Oh, that’s a good call. Yeah.
Dylan: A phone with a full battery. And I guess if you’re really going hard—I’m, like, a little reluctant to put this in—but if you’re really going hard, a flashlight that is a red light flashlight, because it doesn’t destroy your night vision, plus it’s not very visible from far away.
Johanna: That’s a hardcore piece of equipment.
Dylan: Yeah.
Johanna: I will say—so, various times on the show, you have gone out and explored some ruin and brought back tape. And then I have been the one listening to it or cutting it. And there is one item that in every single instance, I feel like I hear you in the tape talking about it or pulling it out. You pack an orange for a snack. Like every single time, I’ll hear you in the tape being like, do you want an orange? I brought two.
Dylan: Snacks are important.
Johanna: A little snack.
Dylan: You know? You’re going to get hungry.
Johanna: Don’t let the blood sugar plummet.
Dylan: Yeah. Exactly.
Johanna: Okay. Next question is from a listener named Chris. “If you could carve your name into any landmark without consequence, where would it be?”
Dylan: This is all like an illegal—this is like an episode about illegal activity past, present, and future. I don’t think I want to do this to a place that I deeply love and cherish. I think I want to do it to a place that maybe I have like more mixed feelings about. I do have an idea. I have an idea here. Okay. So, Mount Rushmore.
Johanna: Yeah. That would be a good one.
Dylan: Very famous site. It also has this weird vault, the Hall of Records that they started to build and is not used, but it’s this little secret vault that I think was originally meant to hold documents and then it’s just like they didn’t finish it. So it would be awesome to climb up to this vault, go to the back of it, and—maybe not even leave my name. I want to leave some kind of series of indecipherable symbols and occult runes, you know? I want to make a real National Treasure vibe. So I would—
Johanna: Wait. Where’s the vault? It’s like behind? Or …
Dylan: Yeah. Here. I’m going to look. Hang on. Give me a second. There’s a secret hall on Mount Rushmore, it’s off to the side … Oh yeah, it’s behind the heads!
Johanna: Whoa.
Dylan: Okay. It’s like behind the heads. Yeah. I mean, this is definitely the place. Like leaving some weird, mysterious symbols in the back of the Hall of Records. Dude. Internet chatter for decades.
Johanna: Love it. Dude, what’s in the Hall of Records?
Dylan: It contains a hidden chamber, a time capsule of sorts, a collection of 16 porcelain panels residing in a teakwood box inside a titanium vault. Oh.
Johanna: Where did you just read that? That’s from a real source?
Dylan: Yeah. Blackhillsvisitor.com. This is their local—dude. This is where I’m putting—
Johanna: That’s a good choice. That’s a good choice.
Dylan: Okay. Everybody, listen. When you go to Mount Rushmore, the next time you’re there, make sure you have your urban exploration gear. Because you need to climb up behind the heads.
Johanna: Wearing your red lamp headlamp.
Dylan: Yes. Into the Hall of Records, look for the titanium vault inside the teakwood box. You will find a 17th porcelain panel. This is my plan.
Johanna: Wait. What is on the tablets? Did it say?
Dylan: I don’t know. Hang on.
Johanna: Oh, okay. “Inscribed on the panels is the story of how Mount Rushmore came to be carved. Who carved it? The reasons for selecting the four presidents depicted on the mountain and a short history of the United States.” So it’s not just like a list of the Illuminati etched into the porcelain panels?
Dylan: Yeah. That’s right. Yes. The Epstein files are in there. That’s where they put it all. All the UFO stuff. It’s just whenever they’ve got something and they really want to keep it secret, they put it here, obviously.
Johanna: Okay. Final question. I am sad to leave the illegal theme behind, but this is something that I actually think about all the time. From a listener sent in via email, didn’t leave their name. It said, “Every time I plan a trip, I’m always torn between going somewhere new and returning to places that I really loved. On the one hand, I think there’s value in getting to know a place a little better with the second or third visit. On the other hand, there are infinite places in the world to see and experience, and it seems silly to repeat destinations. So how do you think about returning to places?”
Dylan: I think my attitude about this has actually changed over the years. I think when I was younger, my feeling was like, never the same place twice. You know what I mean? There’s so much to see. It’s so exciting to see new stuff. But I think now I find it’s really nice to go back to a place that I’ve been to, in part because I feel like maybe it takes some of the pressure off of this sense of like, I’ve got to see it all or whatever. And so I just took a trip to Seattle. I’ve been there four or five times. And it was great. It was so fun. I went and I did stuff that I wouldn’t have normally done. I gave myself just permission to kind of like cruise around and not feel too precious about what I was up to. There should be no guilt about returning to a place that you are familiar with, that you love. And in many ways, that third visit or even that second visit may actually be much more rewarding than the first visit to a place that you’re very unfamiliar with because you’re still getting your bearings and you’re kind of unsure of like, what do I actually want to do here? What makes this place fun? And so I give you permission to go back to the same place again.
Johanna: Well, thank you.
Dylan: Yeah. You go deep, or broad.
Johanna: Because I actually just did this. I just went to New Orleans last weekend. And I had gone exactly two years ago this same weekend.
Dylan: Amazing.
Johanna: We also had this experience where we had gone to this like late night diner last time. And it was such a unique experience where the guy who took our order didn’t say a word at all, was like completely grizzled. Like I think fully even had a teardrop tattoo or something. And then we went back to this diner this past time and it was like, whole other crew. Like a bartender who was just like mocking all the customers and like making fun of, you know, the super drunk British guy in the corner. And it was just like a completely different spin on that place. But I do always feel guilt returning to places again.
Dylan: You’re never going to catch them all. You know what I mean?
Johanna: I also think that when you return to places, it has the effect of sort of blurring the line between travel and just living your life. I feel like we often think of these things in two different categories where it’s like, I am on a trip. This is how my life is when I’m on a trip versus, you know, how you go about living at home. And you feel like those sort of edges erase a little bit. That’s all I got for you today.
Dylan: That was great. I—disclaimer: If you’re doing crime, don’t do it because of this podcast. We do not condone crime.
Johanna: Next Mailbag episode is going to be next month. As always, we need your questions. You can ask advice about upcoming travel plans. Maybe you just want to hear Dylan’s take or opinion on some random thing.
Dylan: Or Johanna’s! One of our opinions on something.
Johanna: So send us an email or you can record a voice memo, send it to us at hello@atlasobscura.com. You can also just call us and leave a message. We will put that number in our episode description.
Dylan: Thanks, Johanna. This was really fun.
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Our podcast is a co-production of Atlas Obscura and Stitcher Studios. The people who make our show include Dylan Thuras, Doug Baldinger, Chris Naka, Kameel Stanley, Manolo Morales, Baudelaire, Amanda McGowan, Alexa Lim, Casey Holford, and Luz Fleming. Our theme music is by Sam Tindall.
